In today’s episode of the ‘Sales Samurai’ podcast, host Sam Capra, who helps marketing leaders in the retail space go beyond the sale/transaction, talks with Jake Dunlap, Founder / CEO of Skaled Consulting and B2B Sales Leader. Jake and Sam are going to be discussing five things every buyer will be grateful for in 2022.
Three Key Points
Speaker 0 00:00:01 Coming to you from Orlando, Florida, Orlando, Florida, and streaming around the world around the world. You are now tuned in to the sales samurai podcast. The only B2B sales podcast, providing unfiltered unapologetic views and tactics directly from the sales trenches. Here's your host, Sam Capra.
Speaker 1 00:00:31 Well, welcome to another episode of the sales Samar. I thanks for listening. Before we begin, do us a favor, take a moment to subscribe and download on today's show. We're going to be discussing five things. Every buyer will be grateful for in 2022. And I have an amazing guest for you guys today, Jake Dunlap, CEO of scale consulting, Jake, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 00:00:51 Awesome. Well, thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to talking through it and yeah, hopefully we can make some happy customers and happy salespeople after this.
Speaker 1 00:00:58 You know what I was realizing, you know, doing my due diligence as a professional salesperson, I went to LinkedIn. We actually may have crossed paths back in our career builder days.
Speaker 2 00:01:09 All right, there we go. Yeah. Career, but there was huge for me work
Speaker 1 00:01:11 On a way back 2008, 2010. Right?
Speaker 2 00:01:14 I was there. Wow. That's cool. Where were you based? Are you in Chicago or?
Speaker 1 00:01:18 I was in Kansas city for a year Overland park and then I wound up transferring back to Orlando, Florida.
Speaker 2 00:01:26 Okay, cool. Yeah, I was in Phoenix, so I helped to open the Phoenix office and then moved to San Francisco and it was in the San Francisco office. So that's amazing. Yeah. Shout out to CareerBuilder.
Speaker 1 00:01:35 I know, man, it's a small world when you bump into people that you've engaged with other alumni of some organization. Hey, but for the people that are not aware, I know you're all over LinkedIn and most people are aware of, of you and what you do, but can of give the audience a little bit of a background, you know?
Speaker 2 00:01:49 Yeah. Happy to do it, man. So, I mean, you mentioned CareerBuilder, but I'll go back a little bit further. So I'm from Kansas city actually. So go chiefs, go Royals chiefs, Royals chiefs. I grew up on the Missouri side and least summits. The name of the city I grew.
Speaker 1 00:02:04 That's the only side isn't there. Jake. I don't think there is even a Kansas side.
Speaker 2 00:02:08 Wow. That's Overland park. People call it Kansas city. They call it. Yeah, that's a whole other thing. So went to school in Missouri, uh, worked in professional sports, something important, kind of early on in my life in college, I had to work. And so, you know, I found jobs and some of the jobs that paid the most were telemarketing. And so I probably did telemarketing for a year, year and a half before I graduated, then I waited tables because I was a lot easier and still make good money and it's a lot more fun. But what happened is I was good at it. And so I was naturally very good. And the big skill that I had that I didn't see in other people is like, I didn't take it too seriously. Had fun with it. I created like fake voices and stuff. Like just, just to like break up the monotony.
Speaker 2 00:02:49 And then I got into my professional job. I worked for the Tampa bay rays. That was my first job out of college. And I crushed everybody. I moved from group sales to account executive, to account executive, to me and one other guy running the inside sales team in less than a year and a half. And a big reason was like, and I all started, started becoming a student of sales. I was reading every book, listening to every, they used to have CDs that you would listen to on your, you know, your drive, Brian, Tracy, shout out to BT. If you guys know Brian, Tracy, and
Speaker 1 00:03:19 Don't forget about the good old Zig Ziglar man,
Speaker 2 00:03:22 Trust me, that's one of the very first ones, right? So I really became a student of the game very early and I loved reading kind of growing up. I got away from in college a little bit and I really started to realize very early like sales satisfied a lot of things for me, I'm naturally very inquisitive. I'm very curious. And that skill is a great skill to have to be a really world-class seller. I also at CareerBuilder is where, you know, that's my two jobs later, you know, that's where I learned sales as a process. CareerBuilder taught me as I've told this story before, but I'll tell it real quickly. I came in, I was the second to last person in my training class to sell anything. And I was like, what is going on? Like I'm God, I'm God's gift. I've been successful. Like, why am I, why can I sell this thing?
Speaker 2 00:04:07 And I had our director, Evan, Ross, I don't know if you know Evan or not shout out to Evan Ross. He was at CareerBuilder for a long time. Evan pulled me in, he was my boss's boss. And he said, Jake, why aren't you reading this script? In fact, like the script, come on, bro script in this like process. Like, no, that's not because dude, do you think we're stupid because do you think we train a thousand salespeople on this? Because it doesn't work. And I was like light bulb. And I was like, Hey, look, what I'm doing right now is not working. So might as well. And I started doing it. I literally agreed exactly verbatim and people like, yeah, that's. I was like, oh my God, sales is a process. Like it is a very specific process. And CareerBuilder truly had a world class sales training department.
Speaker 2 00:04:48 And I was so fortunate that they had a world-class amazing leadership development. I got promoted into the leadership three months later, but I sold $60,000 the next month in new business after goose egg. And it was all because I learned this idea of sales being a process. And so I was able to take that. And then to glass doors, the VP of sales at glass door built a sales organization. There moved to startup in New York and then started scaled almost nine years ago. Now I've got 45 plus people globally and we're helping organizations to modernize their outbound inbound, go to market their sales process, their sales technology stack, anything sales and revenue engine related. You know, we're working on engagements around operations, enablement and strategy. That's awesome, man. There you go. Just gave I really kind of skipped ahead there, but no, that's fantastic. That's my sales journey. That's
Speaker 1 00:05:34 I always love the origin story is you, you beat me to the punch. I was going to ask you a little bit about your origin story, but you've given it to me. It's amazing, but I love what you said about the script and script. What the hell you're talking about. I think that speaks a little bit to sales in general, to some degree we tend to overcomplicate or bypass some of the things that will make us successful a lot faster thinking we could always do it better or we need more of this. We less of that. Like we seem to overcomplicate things. You agree? You agree, disagree with that?
Speaker 2 00:06:02 Well, I think we tend to reinvent the wheel a lot and that's, that was another, another reason that I was successful early. And again, it goes back to it. I would hear someone over here say something and I would see, you know, and it worked I'd immediately just start doing whatever they did, even if it felt weird or unnatural. And, and again, it goes back to books, I'd read something in a book I'm like, okay, I guess I'll try it. And so I was, I was actually talking about this on another podcast this week and I was like, so much people, they try to innovate on themselves. It's like you do realize 99.9 9 9 9, 9, 9% of problems have already been solved. It's called Google, YouTube, right? Not even have, you know, YouTube back then to like, go see like how to do this in real, real life.
Speaker 2 00:06:40 You know? But, but too often people like keep reinventing the wheel. And really early in my career, I just started ripping off everyone else's best practices. And that allowed me to create new baselines for success. And then I would iterate on their best practices as opposed to starting from scratch and too many people in sales. And I think it's an ego problem. They want to be the one to figure it out. Whereas I've never, this is not my thing. I don't care about. Who's right. I care about getting it. Right. Right. And so I think a lot of people start their own as opposed to building on the backs of what other people have already done really successfully. I think
Speaker 1 00:07:18 Hit the nail on the head. I mean, that is really the kind of the crux of it is, is, I don't know if you're right. There might be an ego piece of it, but it's just like businesses out there. There's very few ideas anymore. It's just, are you able to build a better mouse trap? Right. I think you added the art to, Hey, I heard somebody do it and I just took it to the next level and I made it my own, the art of the process, if you will. So I love that piece. Okay. So you've been doing this a long while you already went back to many, many moons ago. You and I are probably close in tenure as far as being around way too long, long in the tooth that they used to say. That's right. So from a sales perspective, I always love asking guests on the show. What's been the biggest change in sales since you started. And I want you to do it from the best case, the word like for the good here's, what's changed for the bad here's what's changed. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:08:05 It's interesting. There's so much, that's the same. I'll start with like maybe more of like sales techniques. I think one of the biggest issues that I see right now is sales is many sales organizations are morphing their sales teams and they're not into sheer qualification process type mindset verse again, you know, as I learned and I grew it's about, look, trust me, I'm not trying to make a new friend here necessarily on call one, but I'm also going to be inquisitive. I'm going to go deep. I'm not going to ask the question straight up. Do you have budget? I'm going to be smart. So I get three other answers versus just one. And I think we are not training the techniques, the Zig Zig Zig Ziglar, Zig Ziglar. His whole thing is tell a story. Right? And that was one of the beautiful parts I think about my experience.
Speaker 2 00:08:51 I'm so lucky. I didn't know. At the time growing up in telesales, you, you've got to kind of close your eyes and visualize the story. Okay. So imagine Jake, you're doing this today and you're, you're painting the picture. We're not teaching that shit right now. You know, instead we're teaching people, medic we're teaching people, methodologies that were literally built 25, 30 years ago, command of the message, the pain funnel, like we're not teaching enough techniques on human behavior, how to interact, et cetera. So that would be one piece technology sales technology, I think is the other is another big one. Meaning reps are not embracing tech the way they should. They're like, I think the problem is everyone's one of their first experiences with sales sales tech was a CRM and it probably sucked. And so since the invent, the invention of the CRM sales reps had like had like, you know, a correlate like sales tech equals complicated sucky.
Speaker 2 00:09:50 Right now we have over 2000 sales technologies that exist in tech. And so the opportunity to unleash, not having to remember everything, it, all of the different things that go into managing your day to day. Following up as a rep, you have to know these tools. You cannot outsource your knowledge to an ops team or to your leader. You need to go get certified in outreach. You need to go get certified. If I was a rep, now I would go get certified in Salesforce. I mean, again, I'm investing in myself and I think that a lot of reps, I don't see them putting in the investment they need to in the technology, they're not learning the techniques. And so by the time they show up with the buyer, they're trying to get the next call, the next call manual. They're treating everyone that they show up at the exact same spot.
Speaker 2 00:10:36 They're not asking great questions. They wonder why the deal falls through later. So those are all the things that are, I think that have changed a lot. There's probably more, some of the things that are the same is you have to be an expert in your industry more than ever. It's always been the case, right? It's very first question. I used to ask my reps when we do account strategy, how do they make money? Very first question. If you can't tell me how they make money, I don't care what you sell. How can you help their business? Because you don't even know what their business is. So how do you know how you can help them or if you can help them. And so being an expert in the industries that you serve, never goes out of style. And I, again, more and more people it's like, well, look, I can get all that product stuff online.
Speaker 2 00:11:14 Now I can go compare you to your top three competitors on G2. So what do I really need a sales rep for? I need to say, hopefully I need a sales rep because they're like, oh, for your use case, it's going to look a little bit more like this, you know, versus like this cookie cutter demo cookie cutter script that, you know, isn't adapted to the individual or the, or the buyer. So I think knowing your, your industry that you serve is never goes out of style. And that is one thing. I thank God. I went to CareerBuilder because at the time my teams, we were all geo based. And so, and we were selling to extra space storage and then to, uh, a cleaning franchise and into a restaurant group. So I got a chance to learn. And as I, you know, as I now run a consulting firm, I've had thousands of we've had thousands of customers. So my ability to quickly relate to people all in the world is just, is blown up because I, I know I've talked to enough of people that do what they do. And I was always asking those curious questions. I'm like, so, you know, and I wasn't afraid of like, Hey, so what does a CNC machinist do? I'm like, oh, and then I get on a call eight months later. I'm like, oh yeah, CNC, machinists. Oh yeah. So know your industry. Know the people you serve.
Speaker 1 00:12:22 You know what I love because you brought up a couple of things I'll touch on them quickly. Cause I think they're fantastic points. Hey, I love the fact that you're actually one of the people you're actually one of the first that have said, Hey, we reps have adopted technology in the right way. They haven't gone out and done the professional development. Get certified, take it upon yourself. You know, educate yourself. I've heard the opposite where like, Hey, we depend too much on technology. What they've been wants to blast out 400 emails through outreach or they want to use zoom info to download 10,000, right? That's the bad side, right?
Speaker 2 00:12:53 That's the bad side. That's the bad side. I've
Speaker 1 00:12:55 Always felt that that's an area that sales professionals depend on the company. Well, they didn't provide me the training. Like in today's day and age, you can get the training from anywhere, YouTube podcasts. There's so much out there that you can do a lot of this on your, not the companies should do their part. Don't get me wrong. Sure. I think that's a crutch that sometimes in our industry we lean on is the company to do it for us.
Speaker 2 00:13:18 Is it the company's career or your career? Is it the company's life or your life? I don't get it. Like you're not doing this. I did a post about this right at the end of last year about I would have no problem as a rep. If my company is like, well, we're not going to invest in, you know, these two fine, I'll pay 400 bucks a month for him. I don't need you. If I know that these tools are going to help me to get access to more information, help me to more effectively manage my day to day. I'm going to make that up and commission all day long without a doubt. And so again, it's like, what are you sitting around waiting for your company for why you think that they're going to do everything for you. They're going to promote you and pick you your special flower and give you everything that you ever did. No, man, you've got to make it happen yourself. I think you're you're right. A lot of people, I think many times try to that. It's easy to blame your company. Well, they should pay for it. Yeah, they should. But they're not. So either quit or shut up and pay for it yourself because those are your choices
Speaker 1 00:14:10 Without a doubt. So I want to get into this because this was one of my favorite posts. I just learned how to save posts. So don't hold that against me. I'm two steps ahead of a beginner on LinkedIn, but five things. Every buyer will be grateful for in 2022. Let me kind of give some context. The reason I wanted to have Jay con outside of his, he's got a great sales mind. There was five things on this list and it was probably one of the posts that I think had like 1400 views and like 884 comments. And there was a few of these elements. I really want Jake to unpack a bit because they kind of want to get the grade. And I'm going to say that out loud, maybe I'm off base, so we're going to touch upon it. But the first one I actually am going to, I have a couple of questions for you. The first one you listed was sellers that do the prep to really know an industry and business. They're going to set yourself apart from the pack, right? I think that's where you're going. Right? Jay, anything to unpack. And I have a couple of questions on that.
Speaker 2 00:15:07 I want to get your thoughts. No, I mean that guy, ironically, that's exactly what I was just mentioning. Exactly. Because again, who are the executives want to meet with one type of person and it's people that make them smarter or their business smarter. If you can't bring that to the table, why would I meet with you? If you can only talk product, if you start talking product, that's three levels below me. That's the go talk to Lisa? That's her team, right? I'm trying to do XYZ big picture. So, so that's why that's more important than ever today. You know, people have less time than they ever did before they want to get to the chase. But again, cut to the chase. Doesn't mean cut to the demo. It's cut to what understanding and showing me the value you can provide, which may be in the form of like talking through the product or talking through industry trends that I need to be aware of.
Speaker 1 00:15:54 Yes. You own that because here's my only, not a sticking point, but yeah. Personalization seems to be used a lot across everywhere. You got personalized, you got personalized. And I'm going to ask this of you because have we over-hype or misunderstood what personalization is? Cause I hear what will help me understand that. Cause I think we have, but I want to make sure I'm not taking this out of context.
Speaker 2 00:16:17 I'd say how about this? It's two-fold meaning it's let's first talk about the difference routine extremely relevant and personalization extremely relevant is, you know, look I've again, I've worked with, you know, you sell into industrial manufacturing and so you've talked to 25 VPs of operations or packaging logistics. I'm just making up stuff. And it says, relevance is, Hey, I know that as a, you know, midsize industrial manufacturing, you all make X. Cause I went to a website, it took me 12 seconds. Right? Lots of VPs of logistics right now are thinking about these two things in 20 22, 1 or two, our work with someone who similar, but not bad is going to be, I think going to be really applicable more than anything. I can give you a competitive analysis of what we're seeing around this and this in particular, if this is something, let me know how this works.
Speaker 2 00:17:07 That is relevant. It's relevant to a lot of people. I still would add a little custom. Right? And that's the things I add that are custom are the competitor sets that I use. Why? When reps say like we work with company or they'll email me, right. And I'll get like, we work with Facebook and blah, blah, blah. And like I'm a 45 person. People services business. Like I don't give a shit who you worked with. And people usually are really bad because again, what's the question. How do they make money? They don't know how they make money. So then therefore they don't know who the competitors are. So they can't even reference. That is great relevancy. Candidly, that alone puts you in the top, like 5% of reps right now. They're not doing that. They don't know what these pirate personas actually want. They lump everybody together.
Speaker 2 00:17:51 Who's a VP of sales, et cetera. So that's relevant then personalization there's nuances. Hey Jake, you posted about this based on that thing. And that's really all you need to do. I saw you post about this or Hey, I read your annual report. These two things jumped off the page to me. If these truly are, it looks like it's again. Then I'm going to research people, Mark Henderson. Let me know if you, so you got to sh you know, what was John Barrows? I think John said, I think it's show me, you know, me. I think that's John's as something he says, and it's just, just the facts. You can show me, you know, me from REL being very relevant because you do know my space. You do give a shit about my industry, or I can do a little bit more personalized, you know, some additional research, et cetera. But man, I can get real. I can write a really good email, like five minutes. Right? Right. I've got a good template. I've got a good way to structure it. And I'm just pulling out a couple little things I think might be interesting. So you don't necessarily have to personalize everything, but everything should be very relevant. And that's how I would break the two apart.
Speaker 1 00:18:49 The catch. I'm glad you gave some context behind the cause. One of the big things I hear quite a bit is it's not personalized enough. It's not personalized enough. And there's almost once again to go back to that crutch. It's not like the field of dreams. If we just send out a perfect email, they will come like still in today's day and age, a response rate is around 1%, 2% according to Clearbit. And obviously personalization increases that more, but it's not scalable. Like there's gotta be a happy medium, right? What can you do in an amount of time and still be productive? It doesn't mean you're trying to batch and blast. Obviously you trying to start with your ICP. I think that's a great call. That's what I wanted to kind of get from this. Understand your approach from a personalization versus a relevant, uh, anything else to add to that piece? Cause I think you hit the nail on the head on it.
Speaker 2 00:19:30 No, I think that's it. Okay. Talk to him.
Speaker 1 00:19:32 This is the, this was one of them that got a little people bubbling on the comments was being able to view a demo when they want, and here's the key piece and not have to hop on a call. That kind of goes against the whole kind of 15 minutes. You're bucking the system, man.
Speaker 2 00:19:48 Oh, I know man. Oh my God. I've got to do trust me, man. Again, like here's the interesting part. I'm one of those people. As soon as I see something, I'm like, I can forget how the way that things were. And I can see that this is going to be the path forward, right? Like I'll give you outreach and SalesLoft. Like that whole world is really easy. We were one of the first users that was back in 2015. I actually implemented Marquetto as a sales leader back in 2010 at Glassdoor, I as a sales leader button. Marquetto because I'm like, you know what you need to be able to do is sequences of things that we can PR. And I was like, oh, then outreach and kind of came out and sales also. So I think I've always been able to forget my old habits because that's how I was trained to, well, no, no.
Speaker 2 00:20:31 Gotta get them on a call. Got it. Yeah. Talk through it and don't get me wrong. That's still is totally fine in certain cases. But today here's the difference in sales? It used to be people came to us at pretty much the same level of intent, meaning they maybe did a little bit of research, but they needed the sales person to educate them, go through some of those nuances talk about today. People might come to you with no background like that. They might've spent an hour and a half on Google and already comparing you to people. They might've been already talked to five people about, Hey, what do you think? They went on a forum and blasted about it. And then they get to a rep. And what happens is we treat everyone the exact same. We treat every single buyer as if they're at no intent.
Speaker 2 00:21:15 And we've got to realize now most companies, and I'm going to talk about this a lot. In 2022, you've got to move away from the one sales process modality and probably have three or four, three minimum, no intent, medium intent, high intent. And the way then that we interact with those people changes a high intent person comes Jake, look, I've already been talking to a few people I'm interested in learning maybe a little bit more. Could you send me a demo of like what it is? There's a company called demo stack and another one called reprise demo stacks. One that we're partnered with. And they say, you know where you can kind of build these like real quick, like five minute cut. They kind of almost appear they well, they are, you can build them custom too. And then when I sent, I said, Hey, absolutely Jake, no problem.
Speaker 2 00:21:58 I'll send that over to you. Take a look, especially take a look at maybe a minute, two or three. Like this is just going to be a high level. And then once you've had a chance to take a look, then perhaps we, we, you know, we hop on a conversation on Tuesday, keep me posted. I'll follow up with you then to see what you thought. Cool. That meet me, where I'm at, meet me, where I'm at in the process right now you might want to say in negotiations, you have back and forth, hop on a call all day. That's going to save both parties a ton of time, but there are parts again, like that's why we've got to stop this one size fits all. It's just where it's different people do have. There's more information about your company that's publicly available and has ever been available about all of us personally. There's more about companies. There's more about the good, the bad and the ugly. And we've got to realize that people have probably, or maybe they have, or they haven't. We've got to meet them where they're at.
Speaker 1 00:22:47 What you've said to me is we try to widget everyone into the same. Like you said, there's three different products. That's what you're seeing is companies need to adopt low intent, medium intent, high intent versus, Hey, everyone is the same buyer because that drives me mad as well. Like if I know I'm looking for something and I want to get in and I want to either buy it or I want to move forward with that, I don't need to go back to step one with you as a salesperson to fit into your process, give me what I'm needing. And I could probably make that decision at a much faster pace than even your sales process would move at. And that always did drive me mad because of my intent is a lot different than someone that maybe downloaded a white paper.
Speaker 2 00:23:25 Uh it's infuriating. It is so like, well, I did a post about this. I don't know if you saw this one. This is right before the new year, we were trying to spend money to lower taxes and I was wanted to prepare Salesforce licenses so that we're not a big client, maybe 30 K, I don't know how much you spend 30 K, something like that. And I said, Hey, can early first it was kind of pre-pay support ticket, blah, blah, blah, back and forth. I'm like, oh my God, okay. No, you can't. Okay. Can we early renew? Our contract is up at the end of January. Hey, well, early renew took like two or three days. Then what happens? Then we have to find out who our rep is, right? Because of course our rep got promoted, right. Two or three or three or four days.
Speaker 2 00:24:03 And he emailed, Hey Jake, can we hop on a call? I swear to God. It's exactly what I said, Hey, can we hop on a call? Discuss like, no, send me the invoice. I want to pay you with credit card. Now we can talk later. Okay. And then he did it. Why couldn't I just enter my credit card? I didn't need to talk to anybody. I don't need an account executive. Like, you know, they can follow up with me when they see the intent signals. Oh, Jake's team is at its limit. You know, like those things, but it's just that mindset that I was ready to buy. And it happens all the time. You have customers who were saying, requesting a demo, literally on your thing. It says requested demo. And then on the first call, you don't even give them a demo. Think about that for just five seconds here, about your expectation management with your customers. When you say requested demo. And the first call is with somebody who can't even answer basic questions. So imagine I've went to YouTube and I looked up your demo already. I went to the G2 again. It's just like people could be at so many different parts of the process right now that one, we just have to have new opportunities for self-service available for low touch available for guiding people along verse forcing them into the process that we want.
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Speaker 1 00:25:50 So I think we're going down this path and this is the one that seemed to kind of, you know, had some questions around it as well. When someone requested demo, the big bugaboo here was they don't have to get qualified first. And that once again goes to the earlier conversation, the old band budget authority need and time like that's something new, right? Everyone's always been team taught, Hey, don't demo. Unless they're qualified like that. They got to follow that process. Talk to me a little bit about that, because that was obviously something that is kind of a different thought if you will.
Speaker 2 00:26:23 Yeah, no, here's what I would think about that. It can be both meaning you can have your cake and eat tea. What's the point. And again, like, let's talk about the qualification. You know, again, I was qualifying people in a great, so tell me about your top two responsibilities. How are you thinking the CareerBuilder's like a two-part question. What are the top roles you're hiring for frequently? And what are the top two most difficult roles to fill? But like, you know, you can run a discovery process and then guess what happens at the end? If they're qualified, I can say, great. Let's talk about CareerBuilder. What do we do? That's so different. Passive job seeker pitch. You know, we've got all this network of jobs, you know, the pitch and great, well, let me pull it now. Let me show you the platform. I'm going to set up a call for a week later.
Speaker 2 00:27:01 Now the other side, it goes poorly. This person's, you know, not qualified. Hey, you know what? Look based on what you've told me. That's not really quite what we do like in our price point is probably going to be here. It sounds like you're just looking for more of like a recruiter type function. So here's a quick high level on CareerBuilder. This is what we do. If you have these issues, keep me posted. We'd love to help. I'll follow up within a month. Or so if anything, any of these things come up, that's it like? And I think most SDRs are smart enough to be trained on how to do a level one demo, a five minute walkthrough. Right? So
Speaker 1 00:27:32 Here's kind of, I don't know if this is the opposite of that, but I think we also qualify a lot of people out that necessarily aren't qualified out. Like I'm just thinking of band, but it's crazy. Like I don't always have the budget or I may have, but totally there's an education. There's a process that if there's an opportunity versus a pain, like I've never understood that, oh, you don't have the budget. You don't have the budget right now.
Speaker 2 00:27:54 Do you remember what we called it at CareerBuilder? Do you remember what we called that section?
Speaker 1 00:27:58 I always forget.
Speaker 2 00:27:59 What is it it's called. Create the need. That's right. Yep. And it was the second step because what it is is this sales, a lot of the challenger sale addressed some of this, even though this is like what I'm talking about, the Cribble their stuff, predates challenger. The it's the idea that look, most people are just busy in their day to day. And I'm just going to ask questions and I've always thought of this. It's like a good therapist, right? It's always a good conversation. Especially in a business setting. It's usually a self discovery process. Hey, how are you thinking about this, John? Cause I need John to feel it. I need him, her, him. And then the next thing that I do is I use third-party data to talk about trends in the industry. And if you don't think those trends are important, then cool, then you're, then you're definitely not qualified.
Speaker 2 00:28:44 But if maybe right now you didn't have budget specifically identified, think about my business, right? We've doubled year over year, we're up almost 40%, 50% before COVID numbers. And how many people have a budget for can sales consulting. They've got a sales training budget. No, if it's something, you know, somehow we've done well into the eight figures over the course of eight years, you know? So I think I don't rely on a budget. Is there a problem or an issue? Hey, here's how we think about things in the world. Do you agree? All right, well, let's see if we can help you solve them and create the budget. Any company. I tell reps this all the time. Whenever we do workshops or we redeployed playbooks or something, it's like any company that's of any decent size that says they don't have 30,000 bucks is lying to you. They just don't want to give it to you like any company. If you can tell me the ROI can write a tweet. You can run their credit card for 30 K or invoice for 30 K. And so I think like the idea that we're qualifying to your points were like qualifying first and then thinking that if they don't have band or med, whatever the hell like filled out, that they're not qualified. It's just lazy. It's just sloppy.
Speaker 1 00:29:55 Yeah. It goes back to what you were saying earlier. We were talking about the good and the bad of what's happening in sales and how techniques of it's been kind of coached to these people. Like just read from this script, you got to follow this band process. You got to ask these five or six questions. You got to interrogate the prospect. If they answer them the correct way, move them onto your AAE and let them do a demo. That's the next step, right? It's just, we're going to shove them down this path, regardless if they're a fit, not a fit or whatever the case might be.
Speaker 2 00:30:21 Exactly.
Speaker 1 00:30:21 So when you say give them a demo, so request a demo. They don't.
Speaker 2 00:30:25 Yeah. I hate demo by the way. Like I ban that for my, like all of my teams to use because it, it like, it almost assumes like a one size fits all approach. The term that I always use we use internally is matching, which is like, if you can't say this is what I would drill in my teams. I remember this, that CareerBuilder. If before you open your mouth and talk about something at CareerBuilder, you can't say earlier in our conversation, when you said this, here's how we do this. You probably shouldn't be talking about it because what the customer cares about the things they told you, they care about. And again, we used to, I used to do contest with the team where like, they couldn't say a features name ever. They just had to explain it and explain the impact based on what the customer said.
Speaker 2 00:31:07 And so that's what I talk, you know, when I think about the word demo, it's I understand your pains. And then I go give a copy and paste demo. Well, that's stupid. I just told you all my pains, show me how you solve those pains specifically. Now, what I tell teams is you probably only solve for like five things, right? Most people between like three to six, seven max, as like you can have the same order of operations where you start here and you end here, but where you stop and spend time is based on where they told you, Hey, you know how you said this, Jake, and you're trying to do this. Let me just spend the next few minutes. Let me show you how we do that. What are your thoughts? Do you think that that's going to help? Yeah. Great. Next you, you know, let's talk about this.
Speaker 2 00:31:42 So right now I think a lot of people are just going through the motions and it's interesting. I think COVID has probably made it worse because people are just sitting there, staring at this camera, this green dot all day and not, and just, you know, getting worn out from an energy standpoint. I don't have that problem, but I know a lot of people have that problem. But for me, I think it's, it's probably even made it worse now. Okay, great. Yeah. Let me talk to you about it. You know, my mindset in sales is like, it might've been your 400 demo that year. It's their first. So you better bring the fire. You've got to bring that energy. They've never experienced it before. So are you going to mail it in or are you going to step up? That's why you get paid the big bucks, but you get paid commission. That's the, job's not called information giving it's called information. Giving I'd just go hire customer service people, right.
Speaker 1 00:32:27 Or an order taker. Yeah. Without a doubt. So it's funny because I've seen that happen multiple times. Right? I hop on a demo and they throw everything at me. Like my use cases are nowhere interweaved in there and 95, but I would never use or never touch. There's probably
Speaker 2 00:32:41 3%. Oh my God. It's so
Speaker 1 00:32:43 Painful. It really is painful.
Speaker 2 00:32:45 So annoying. It's like, I just told you, I literally, Y I've know, I've talked about this before, but I'm like, why did you bother asking me the questions? You know, again, like if you say, if you really say you need to do a discovery and you need to, but then you don't use any of that. Why did you ask the questions in the first place with a,
Speaker 1 00:33:03 Yeah. So I, the fourth one we kind of touched on, so we're not gonna spend a ton of time, outbound emails that show someone took five minutes to think through the fit and messages.
Speaker 2 00:33:13 That's right. That's what we just talked about. Relevancy. Even like Jake, you're a CEO of a small growing professional services company. I know at that stage, usually you're thinking about these couple of things, that's it like, you know, and the other thing I think that's happened and I'll just go, I'm going to just talk about this. Olivia A. Little bit is, you know, man, if you only got to have a handful of accounts, right? You've got a handful. You have to get meetings with these people. And I think right now that's not the mindset that a lot of sellers have. I'm like, dude, if you're on my list, I'm going to get a meeting with you. Like it's just not an op or somebody, somebody at that company is going to talk to me. Right. And I think too often, it's like we disqualify the company. We should be disqualifying a person that happens a lot.
Speaker 2 00:33:56 And too, we don't want it bad enough. We say we want it bad, but it's like, do you really want to meet with me? If somebody really wanted to meet with me, there's like 800 ways that they could do that. They could look at mutual connections on LinkedIn. They could start to send me some well thought out emails and LinkedIn messages. I can tell you this. Maybe there was one in 20, 21. How many consistent out of all the sequences I got and LinkedIn connections on synergies. Hundreds, if not thousands, I don't think there was one. I'm sure there was. Let's just say that there was maybe one or two where they sent more than more than two personalized touch points. That's how lazy and easy it is right now to win. Just be a little bit relevant like it is and be consistent. It's just consistent.
Speaker 2 00:34:44 Just again, just understand, you know, what happens to everyone's first email. I'm just gonna tell you guys secret alert. It gets archived. So you spend all the time only customizing the first email that got archived. And then you wonder why your other four, man, I can't take it. But I also, this is earlier this week I got, I can't take the breakup email. I'm going to lose it. The ABC that's dudes. And then it was so, and then a guy sent me one yesterday. I said, look, I've put this post up on Tuesday about like, I rewrote the breakup email to like add relevancy. Right. And instead of it being about breaking up and it's a really smart, I can't remember the woman's name, but she commented. She was like, yeah, the point is you're never breaking up. I'm like exactly one, there is no breakup. You sent me two emails. And now I'm the jackass because I didn't respond to your generic emails and like, Hey, you're busy. Be your man. Get outta here, dude. Come on. I can't take it. I don't know if
Speaker 1 00:35:38 This was our career builder days or if it was my Salesforce, they used to call it a deer Gabby, which is essentially the breakup. I don't even know where that even came from. But it's so funny. You said that because I must much like you, like, I don't know if I've ever replied to an email. I'll be very candid. I don't know if I've ever got a solicitation. I'm like, I'm going to reply and say, yeah, I want to meet. I don't think that's ever happened on the first email. It's probably been the fourth, fifth, six. If they've ever made a pass or to be quite candid with you as I'm going through this, it's the people that have engaged me through multiple channels, right? They pay me on LinkedIn. I saw your post, love the post, like the post, whatever the case might be.
Speaker 1 00:36:15 But Jay, I will say this. I have put this everywhere. I'm a huge cigar. Just for the list of, if you want to get into my, you know, if you want to be on the podcast, I am a huge cigar person. Like, and there's been one person over the last five years that that's tried to get a meeting with me that has literally said, Hey, I heard you love these types of cigars. Just want to drop them to you literally sent me a box of cigars. Like so easy. It should be. But now Jake, but there's a side to that that I want to get your thoughts on because not everybody is as Trent. They're not creating content. Like you, they're not posting as much on LinkedIn, their personal likes and all that. It's not as transparent. Like that can be a little bit of a challenge trying to understand what does resonate with us outside the industry. Things that are might be of a pain point, if you will.
Speaker 2 00:37:03 That's why I go back to the relevancy, right? Because guess what? You don't need it. Right? If you instead know what CEOs of professional services companies are facing right now, that's going to be better than 99% of what's out there. So if you don't have anything about somebody who cares, you should always know their day to day. You should always know how they make money. You should always know those things because you know your customer, you know what these people go through and you know how you can help people. And so if most people it's called Google, like I said, like, they'll, there will be something. And even again, like, I'm just going to get publicly traded company. I'll go look at their website. I'm going to read their annual report. The quarterly earnings report.
Speaker 1 00:37:45 W what a law start. That is Jake. I remember Becker a queer bullet. The 10 K we used to
Speaker 2 00:37:49 Hell. Yeah, man. They taught me that. I didn't know how to look at that thing.
Speaker 1 00:37:53 The last start that is, I mean, people talking about trying to pull, like, go look at the 10 K the risk factors. You know what they're projecting what they're talking about. Like that is a gold mine of information as an organization.
Speaker 2 00:38:04 Yeah, exactly. Like, let me give you an example. Okay. I just looked down at my email guy, emails me out of the blue. Yeah. Jake, I'm a career, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I work in this and this. I really liked dig your work in this space. I can't tell if he's personalized. He doesn't say my company, you know, here's what I've been up to chat next week. And then here's next email. Hey Jake. Yeah. Hold on. Is there anything in here? I mean, he talks about sales tax. I'm assuming he's maybe seen by stuff before, and then he sends an email, just bumping this to the top. Can you tell me a little more about what you're thinking? Try to take on LinkedIn, but didn't see anything. So again, his LinkedIn profile is horrible. Like I like he's talking about like putting out content.
Speaker 2 00:38:38 So I assumed it was on LinkedIn. I'd looked, I didn't really see it. He's got a link to his LinkedIn and his Twitter and his email. I didn't see much. So I said, Hey, can you do that? Hey, I'm open to variety of outcomes. Each of these conversations have gone differently. You free for 30 minutes. I want to pick up my computer and throw it out the fucking window right now. Sorry, you complete that if you need to. But like, why do you want to waste your own time? Like, why do you want to waste your own time? I might not be a great fit for you, even though you think you want to meet with me, like, let me help you.
Speaker 1 00:39:07 Isn't that part of the vicious cycle, because it's for an STR. They're all, it's all about giving the appointment, the appointment, the appointment, the appointment. It's kind of a vicious cycle. We've almost set ourself up for that 30 minute call is what their metric don't like, I got to get more meetings. I got to get 12 this week. So it's kind of a vicious cycle. Yes, no, I do agree with that. I mean, there's, there's, there's the paradigm to shift.
Speaker 2 00:39:28 It's different again. It's like, here's the thing. If he gives me something, I'll meet with him. Like it's just more, I want to know what it's about because what if I'm not the right person? How about this? Instead of then you counting, you had, I can just loop in our head of partnerships. Cool. Hey Briana, meet Bubba. Hey. Oh, you want to sell some recruitment stuff? Oh, meet Matt and talk like, it's like connect the dots, give me something so I can get you to the right place. And if I'm the right person. Cool. So yeah, no, you already get credit for the two emails. Right? Whatever it is. So like, all this is going to do is accelerate it, right? It's all, it's not going to accelerate the conversation.
Speaker 1 00:40:04 So let's help him. The last one, because this was, I think this was the final one that set the world on fire. And I got a little layer to this. I want to get your, I obviously, I think I know your opinion, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Number five was self checkout. Oh my God. Stop the presses. Hold on one second. Self checkout in B2B. Yes. People are ready to start buying 20 to $50,000 solutions without a salesperson. So there's a lot to unpack that. I want to get your thoughts on it. First and foremost.
Speaker 2 00:40:29 I mean, I told the Salesforce story earlier. There is no, I am and we prepaid 15,000. So we bought, um, Salesforce is like, I think it's 28. We bought almost $50,000 of software. Let me tell you how we had to do with this other service provider. Cheap. What year is this? Okay. Here's how, here's what, by the way, this company is not a small company because it's another large company. They're not Salesforce large with a big, okay. Right. Hey, we want to prepay for the rest of this year. You had us on quarterly billing. We wanna pay it upfront. They at least were like, okay, here's a credit card authorization form. Can you enter your credit card? Unlike a word, doc inter. And it's like, why am I not typing this into a system? And it says approved, and then you gotta go. You gotta make sure.
Speaker 2 00:41:17 Then I got what I got to go print. I don't like, I don't even know what to do with this thing, man. Like when someone sends me a contract to sign, they don't send it in like a HelloSign or DocuSign. I'm like, don't fax it one. Okay. So now I got to go and upload it to HelloSign and that's what I had to do here. So I'm like, okay. So I fill it out. I upload it to HelloSign. Then I send it. I could have literally paid with my credit card and saved all of us an hour to two of our lives. And so I just, it goes back to it. Look, everyone's not me. I'm not trying to project here, but what I am saying is there enough people like me today, look at our B to C lives. We, we expect it. I mean, again, like Amazon, like, wait, what do you mean?
Speaker 2 00:41:55 It's not going to get here tomorrow. How many times have you made a purchase of two products that are the exact same products, but one could get there in a day or maybe even one was like slightly better, but one could get there in a day. And once you get there in two weeks, you pick the day. And so like the best products are going to start losing I'm fully. The best products are going to start to lose. If they continue to have this archaic process, again, it's more about just having the option without a doubt, give people the option. And then maybe that's when sales gets involved, right? It's well, Jake just ran his credit card for 15 grand. Now let's get sales in the mix. Hey Jake, actually 15 is wrong. I think he should be doing our 25 plan. Here's why here's the differences. What do you think? Oh, that's sales.
Speaker 1 00:42:36 That's a lot more Jake than just raising your hand. You've put money on the table.
Speaker 2 00:42:39 I'm ready. People are ready to buy. Let's buy. I think there's my point about different intent funnels. And right now we treat so many people like the one, the one funnel, and it's just not how it exists anymore. And again, if you don't have that self-service, and again, I'm not talking about for something that costs a thousand, I'm talking about for something for 50,000 or something for a hundred thousand. Like again, if you ask before March of 2020, is it, if you asked either 90% of enterprise sales leaders, Hey, enterprise leader, this is January of 2020. Do you think people will spend, we'll buy 500,000 to million dollar product 100% virtually no chance. Nope, no chance. They'll never do it. Guess what they did. And they did it a lot. And then how it, every team. And we've got a ton of projects where we're doing this now.
Speaker 2 00:43:30 Guess what every team is realizing, wow, maybe we don't need this big field org anymore. Maybe people do not want to meet with people as much. Right? So I just think there's a lot of things that we think about sales of like, because it's the way we've done it. The past that there's no way someone would want to do this. And I think the key that I'm trying to get at with this, that, that post and in this conversation is just meet customers where they're at and it could be self-service or might not be maybe they want to talk to someone immediately. Great. Let them do that too.
Speaker 1 00:43:56 Well. I mean, is it the whole goal of an organization outside of making money? And the only path to making money is to make it as frictionless as possible for the customer to actually hand over the money, whatever that means to the customer. I don't care what you want as a customer. I want to do what I want to do on my own terms. And if I want to plop down in American express for 30 grand, then I should have that option to be able to do, I can do with any other, like you said, B to C, I want to go buy a car. I can do that and do whatever I have to do right up front. But here's one thing that baffles my mind. This is even a step before actually buying something. I am enraged. When I go to all these SAS platforms and I can find pricing, it contact us like, and these things are plug and play. Like it's not rocket. It literally you sign up and you're using it. I have to click on contact us to figure out, to go through a demo, to pay $58 a month. And I'm, I'm talking about 50 grand. I don't understand the lack of transport, not even getting to just buying it. Like why can't we be transparent on what the cost of it is? And let me do my due diligence. Like that's even a step before what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 00:45:04 Well, or even like, yeah, you can't talk about pricing too. I know they can look again, probably some sellers listening to this. Look I grew up in the same way you did. You'll talk about price on the first call. Never talk about now. It's like, you have to, again, they've already done their research. You've talked to them mine as well. I mean, we openly talk about how much it's going to cost. Like I've talked to them about their issues. We've already demonstrated some ways we're gonna be able to solve it. Here's a ballpark. Are we in the ballpark? We've gotta be okay with it. And even, I think gong or somebody had done some studies around it that actually it increases the close rate. It was, I can't remember by foodies, like 40 or 50 pounds. Like it wasn't, it wasn't like a trivial number. That's like reps that talk about co that was about competition. Like reps that talk about the competition. You know, it's like a deals like 50% more likely to close. If you talk about it in the first call, as opposed to just like ignore it, you know, like, oh, the competition doesn't exist. They're not there. So there's this people are just expecting this level of transparency today.
Speaker 1 00:45:57 I got a final one thing for you. Cause I saw this post and when we're going to keep it brief has already, you've got to get going. But yeah, there was something that I think even set the world on fire even more. And I loved it. You made the comment of sales is not relationship building. This was back in 2021. Like, so this was so long ago. This was last year. It was a month ago. Buyers don't want to, you know how many times I've heard is still here. That's all about the relationship. She got to build a relationship. You got to have a relationship. You got to do. You know how
Speaker 2 00:46:26 I think about how insane that is? Right. Really think Susie in Ohio, Susan Smith, in Akron, Ohio, she wants to
Speaker 1 00:46:35 Know my Christmas cards.
Speaker 2 00:46:36 She, you really think, you know, she's got two kids, he's got taken a soccer practice. I got COVID like, you know, you've got her, mother-in-law live it. You really think that Susan Smith and Akron, Ohio, and if all the things she has going on, what Susan wants is someone who can add value and make her life easier now. Cause that's what I do in sales having to make you smarter. And I want to hopefully make, I don't want to make your life easier. So the only reason you should do business, almost anybody it's going to make you more money, blah, blah, blah. There's other, I mean, there's other, other reasons to think that how much Susie and I like each other and exchange like Christmas cards has the same effect as my ability to articulate the impact I can have on Susie's day-to-day is delusional. And I'm not saying to be re and the problem is a lot of people when they hear me say that, they think like, I'm saying, be like, be, be mean or be I'm not talking about being mean or cocky.
Speaker 2 00:47:30 I'm saying be a Grinch or whatever. A business transactions foundation is based on. Can we, is there an opportunity here for us to help each other? Can I help you? Right. And you know, you can help me by paying and I get a commission check, right? And I think too many people, they rely on the likability stuff. And again, challenger sale already dispelled this. Right? You go back and read challenger sale from 10 years ago. They said the relationship builders a B persona. Nobody's got time for that. All right. Well I like Jim. Yeah. Jim's a good guy. You know, we're in cover CYA mode, you know, peop how many more people are involved in a decision out 10 20, you know, depending, and that you can't in relationships with all of them. So again, you need to be able to articulate the business value to each group and each individual.
Speaker 2 00:48:12 So I just think it's more about the over-reliance on relationships. And again, maybe some people are like, well, that's why I mean by relationships and that's fine. I'm not talking about those people. What I am talking about is buyers. Don't need you to be their friend, to want to do a ton of business with you. We've gotta be able to trust you. They've got to believe you, but that's not a relationship. There's a lot of people I let I let a 15 year old down the street, watch my kids. Right? I trust her, et cetera. We don't need to be friends. I don't need another friend doing whatever person who waits my table. Nice person, trust them to not spit my food. Don't need a relationship with them. So I think we just have to get out of our heads that, uh, not having, however you define a relationship, you know, which is like, if, if just having trust between two people is how you define relationship fine. But if it's like likability and all that, this is not true.
Speaker 1 00:49:04 Um, and I loved in that post was challenges they are facing and not how to read the 14th grade because you were saying playing golf. And in all fairness,
Speaker 2 00:49:14 I love golf. That's the funny part is I love all that shit. I love wine steaks and golf. I love all those things that,
Speaker 1 00:49:22 Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:49:23 Dude, I love all that stuff. But the point is not everybody else does. So I don't know if that's my one skill. I'm not gonna be able to close a whole lot of other people. If that's what you want to do. Cool. Now we're going to relate that way a little bit. But at the end of the day, I'm busy. I got stuff to do. I used to tell my team all this, again, this is back in the mid to late two thousands. I'm like, yeah, they'd be talking and pop. I'm like, John, you do not need another friend in Seattle. We are not in the friend making business. We are in the value exchange business. And it doesn't mean you be that you're rude and they're you're you're that you be racist. That's not what this is, but you're also not focused on just being a buddy and listening. That could be maybe what, you know, you're listening, listening, but Hey, is there a value exchange here for both of us so we can help each other? We'll stay in touch. He seemed like a nice person said, wow, great, perfect. That's not a relationship.
Speaker 1 00:50:10 I tell you. I know people in my space that they've been working with someone for three or four years. I'm like, well, how much business they do with you? Oh yeah, we don't do business together. I'm like, well, how'd that relationship start? Well, we start talking about business, but what's never amounted to anything. Like I'm like, I don't understand. That's
Speaker 2 00:50:26 Okay too. Yeah. That's all right. That's fine.
Speaker 1 00:50:28 But you get, but Jake, you get lulled into that. It's a comfortable conversation. I can always go back to him or him. We can have the same conversation over and over. It makes you feel like you're doing something as a sales person and it's God awful. It's a waste of time.
Speaker 2 00:50:43 I got too much stuff going on, man. I don't. Where do you have time for it? I never had time for it to make another friend in Seattle. Nice people, great people. But if I could, if you know, look, we'll stay in touch with that, but I don't need to foster some deep relationship, you know, with some random person,
Speaker 1 00:50:58 A thousand things going on. So how did the audience learn more about you learn a little bit more about scale consulting the whole nine yards.
Speaker 2 00:51:04 Yes, yes, yes, yes. So, so obviously we talked about LinkedIn, so it's forward slash Jake Dunlap. Definitely do that. Also make sure to check out my podcast. You can go to any apple, Spotify, just type Jake Dunlap show. And you know, we tell the stories of some of the most successful CEOs, entrepreneurs, celebrities, Olympians, military. I did a podcast today at this ex Navy seal sniper sick. It's awesome. So that one will drop. So maybe by the time this does, you can go listen to that one. So definitely go check that out, go to any of those, check out the podcast, find me on LinkedIn and then check out scaled ska, led.com. And yeah, if you're looking to up your sales, your improve, your sales results, your organization, and, or looking to modernize, we've got a ton of free resources in our insights page, or feel free to reach out to us fit in.
Speaker 1 00:51:53 So we're going to put all that in the show notes. So you guys have quick reference to Jake, Jake. Sincerely appreciate you taking the time, man. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 00:51:59 Sure. Thanks, man. It was fun. I enjoyed it.
Speaker 0 00:52:04 Thank you for listening to the sales samurai podcast with your host, Sam Capra. Be sure you subscribe to our podcast and visit sales samurai.io and join the conversation. Access show notes and discover bonus content.
While I never quite envisioned a career in sales, I realized I had a natural aptitude for selling. I started working in sales and marketing in college, and my desire to succeed helped me to excel at every sales organization I joined. However, my successes didn’t come without their share of struggles.
6 years ago… There I was 32 years old and crushing every sales projection in my path. I was Vice President of Sales and Success at Chartbeat, making mid-six figures, and building a team that helped the company sell for 1.2 billion dollars. And that’s when it happened. I was fired for the 6th time in my career. That’s when it all became clear; I couldn’t stand the status quo as an employee.
Status quos made me uncomfortable because I only wanted to live above them. And continue growing; continue scaling. My company, Skaled, was born.
Today, I’m on a mission to help CEOs and Executives scale their organizations as effectively and efficiently as possible. We have consulted with well over 400 companies, including multiple Fortune 500 companies. With 15 consultants throughout the US, our company is scaling at the same rate as our clients.
And we’re not slowing down anytime soon.
My goal is transform the future of sales and change the way people sell. Many sales leaders still run teams the way they did 15 years ago. But in today’s world, that status quo just won’t do. My mission and my company’s mission are one and the same; to teach companies to interact with their buyers - more efficiently and effectively.
If you’re ready to reach the forefront of sales and marketing, feel free to reach out.