Jan. 27, 2022

Sales Coaching Best Practices

Sales Coaching Best Practices

In today’s episode of the ‘Sales Samurai’ podcast, host Sam Capra, who helps marketing leaders in the retail space go beyond the sale/transaction, talks with guest Nicolas De Swetschin, Head of Sales for noCRM.io, He discusses what are those best practices from a sales coaching standpoint. He also shares tips, and techniques that we all could immediately start to implement.

Episode Highlights

  • 01:53 – Nicolas shares, he has been working in sales for the last 15 years. He did graduation as a Telecommunication Engineer but he started straightaway in sales, b2b sales, complex sales, and international sales.
  • 02:47 – Sam enquires, what got Nicolas started in sales and what was his motivation.
  • 03:32 – Nicolas always has mixed technical stuff and sales but then he switched to a fuller business development position.
  • 04:05 – Salespeople are getting much more technical than they used to be, says Sam.
  • 06:15 – Sam asks the guest about the biggest change they’ve seen in sales in 12 years, both for the best and for the worst.
  • 08:23 – “How do you define sales coaching in your world?” Sam asks Nicolas.
  • 10:34 – Nicolas says that tip one would be setting the context and making sure all the feedback and coaching they were doing is taken and made with positivity.
  • 12:25 – Sam asks Nicolas about other goals that they have set up at that meeting every week.
  • 17:35 – Nicolas shares how they chose deals to talk about.
  • 19:44 – Sam enquires from Nicholas about managing accountability to those in roles.
  • 21:32 – Nicolas explains how he manages to coach.
  • 24:00 – They do a team sharing session to share what they are running up against whatever the topic might be, says Nicholas.
  • 25:16 - Where does personal development fall into your strategy, asks Sam.
  • 28:34 – Nicolas states that it would be better if they select their training session.
  • 32:22 – Sam enquires about the biggest obstacle that Nicholas faces in his day-to-day life in making all that happen.
  • 36:46 – Nicholas suggests to the team to think positively and take your failures as a game.

Three Key Points

  1. Due to COVID, we realized that there were no big needs for traveling around the world and meeting customers each time we wanted to talk to them.
  2. Nicolas highlights they've got one-on-one sessions every week with all the members of his team, and in that session, he got to know their feeling is a bit deeper into the deals where they are struggling so that he can help them remove the obstacles.
  3. Training is very important, at least self-training, constant training and we should apply this more to sales or any skills in companies.

Tweetable Quotes

  • “I started as a Technical Sales Manager, so, it's a kind of mix between engineering, and sales. I learned a lot about sales during that first row.” - Nicolas De Swetschin
  • “I still find a lot of value in face-to-face meetings; I do think there's something to be said for meeting someone face-to-face.” – Sam Capra
  • “I think the training is part of the coaching, it's a very important part”. – Nicolas De Swetschin
  • “It’s very important to keep these regular meetings to build up the team spirit and make people talk together and just at the end of this meeting, we set up our weekly goals”. – Nicolas De Swetschin
  • “Let them think about their solution, instead of always giving them the solution” - Nicolas De Swetschin
  • “We try to build-up the culture of the company, as to people as to be very autonomous and very self-responsible for their activities and goals”. – Nicolas De Swetschin
  • “Every month also, I'm doing some kind of more in-depth review of what has happened, why we losing deals, these kinds of things. It's more sales analysis”. – Nicolas De Swetschin
  • “If you want to dig in a specific topic, now you basically can find some interesting stuff on your own.” – Nicolas De Swetschin
  • “Sometimes one of my goals of the day is to listen to an interesting podcast.” - Nicolas De Swetschin

Resources Mentioned

Title Sponsors:


Speaker 0    00:00:01    Coming to you from Orlando, Florida, Orlando, Florida, and streaming around the world around the world. You are now tuned in to the sales samurai podcast. The only B2B sales podcast, providing unfiltered unapologetic views and tactics directly from the sales trenches. Here's your host, Sam Capra.  
Speaker 1    00:00:30    Well, welcome to another episode of the sales samurai. Thanks for listening. Hey, before we begin, do us a favor, take a moment to subscribe and download on today's show. We're going to be discussing something near and dear to my heart. Really best practices for sales coaching. As a sales leader, I find sales coaching is a challenge with everything else going on. And I have an amazing guest for you guys today. Nicholas , who is the head of sales for no CRM IO out of France is with us today. And he's going to be tackling this along with me to kind of discuss what are those best practices are. We're going to boil it down to the top three, five, somewhere in that neck of the woods that we could provide you guys that you could take from the show today and immediately start to implement. Hey Nicholas, welcome to the show, man.  
Speaker 2    00:01:14    Yeah. Hi Simon. I, everyone happy to be here and looking forward to this quick session with you.  
Speaker 1    00:01:20    Oh man, I think you win the award. You, my first guests from France, I've had other people on that side of the pod. I think France. You've got that. You're the initial, uh, France, French guests, I should say.  
Speaker 2    00:01:32    Okay. First French and your podcast. I'm happy to visit that's group.  
Speaker 1    00:01:38    Fantastic. Hey, well do give us a, you know, if you don't mind, Nicholas, just kind of give a quick context, little bit about you, your background for the audience, just to get a better flavor for you, Nicholas.  
Speaker 2    00:01:50    Um, very quickly I've been, uh, basically working in sales for the last 15 years now. I did graduate as a telecommunication engineer, but I started straight away in sales, B2B sales, complex sales, and mostly international sales. So I've been working with different continent all over my career and now I've, I've don't know CRM for many reasons, but first of all, because it's a remote company and now based in giant in the Southwest of France, I suggest that you visit there if you don't know the place. And yeah, I joined because there was a challenge of becoming head of sales, which was new for me, the managing people all over the world. And that was a good challenge. So that's what I've been doing since the last two years now.  
Speaker 1    00:02:34    Yep. That's it. That's awesome. So you said you came out of school, a technical engineer. Did I hear that correctly? Nicholas, that was your background initially. Wow. So what got you started in sales? Like you quickly went into this, like what got you started in sales? What was the curiosity? What was the motivator behind getting into sales?  
Speaker 2    00:02:51    No, it was basically the, um, you know, all the consultants for aspects that you can have when you're talking to a customer or prospect. I like that. So I started as a, what we call a technical sales manager. So it's, it's kind of mixed between the engineering stuff and sales. So I learned a lot about sales during that first role and I liked it. I mean, I liked everything about the, getting the, the customer in front of me explaining and understanding their issue and coming with the right solutions. I got an opportunity to join another company and be a, the, the, the full sales and business developer there. And I liked it. I really liked it. So I kind of always have mixed technical stuff and sales, but then I switched to full a business development position, I would say in my second role. And I liked it. So that's it.  
Speaker 1    00:03:42    No, that's, I actually see, and don't want to get on a, on a, don't go down a rabbit hole, but I actually see that salespeople are becoming more tech. I remember my days at Salesforce, you know, you should have a soul con solutions consultant and then the salesperson would run more of the sales thing. But the solutions consultant was really the brain. As far as the technical, I'm starting to see some of that. Like the salespeople are having to get much more technical than they used to be. Do you agree with that, Nicholas? We think I'm off base a bit there.  
Speaker 2    00:04:09    I kind of agree because at least when I started, which was not so long ago, but it was, there was clearly a split between the sales guy and the technical sales manager or technical engineer. That was my role. And there was a split and now more and more that the sales guys or what we could maybe full stack SES able to manage everything from day one until the closing of the lead. Yeah. I think it's also because the technology has evolved a bit. It's now more and more online with SAS technologies and stuff like that. So it's less complicated. So it makes sense. Yeah.  
Speaker 1    00:04:42    You hit the nail on the head with that last part. Nicholas, I think the complexity of the tool a lot more powerful today's, but like, it doesn't require a bunch of configurations and all these things that used to have to connect the dots behind the scenes that a sales guy just probably wouldn't be able to do. But I think you hit the nail on the head. So talk to me, you've been now in sales, just give me a ballpark. 5, 10, 15, 20. How long have you been in a sales role? Sales, leadership, sales contributor. How long have you been in the sales side?  
Speaker 2    00:05:09    I would say about 12 years. And now it's been only two years, like three years. I'm managing people. I was managing two people locally before and now we've got a team of nine people at Zealand worldwide. So we've got two people in a advent in academia then it's us and then all over Europe. And so that's my role today is to manage and coach Z steam atmosphere.  
Speaker 1    00:05:34    That's awesome. And I actually, I think that is, and I know we talked about this offline. That is another layer to sales leadership that probably has its own podcast, managing people in multiple countries and multiple areas of the world. That's a whole different beast from a sales leadership. So at some point I want to pick your brain on that. Tell me in that 12 years, I always ask this question because I'm really big on what people thoughts are here in the 12 years. What have you seen for better and more? So give me both sides of the coin from a sales perspective. What's the biggest change you've seen in sales in that 12 years? Both for the best and for the worst, in your opinion.  
Speaker 2    00:06:15    Yeah. It's a difficult question for the best. I would say it's maybe, um, really recent, but things this time, thanks to COVID. We realized that there was no big needs for traveling around the world and meet customers each time you want to talk to them. That's what I was doing at the beginning. Like it's time I had to do a demonstration, I would fly all over the world and go for meeting. We don't that this need anymore. And this is great, of course, for many reasons. So that's for the best. And then for the worst, I don't know. I think it's evolving in the right direction. So I would not say there is bad evolutions in the SAIS. So no, no negative thoughts about that.  
Speaker 1    00:06:59    I love it, man. I love it. So we're getting started with all positivity. I love it. I do agree with you. I do think COVID highlighted or spotlighted that you can't be more strategic around those face-to-face meetings. I do believe at some point I still find a lot of value in face-to-face meetings. I do think there's something to be said for meeting someone face to face, but to your point, not every call, not every demo, not every step of the process needs to be faced where for some companies that's the way it is or it was. And I think zoom has been able to kind of fill that gap and to your point that a lot of effectiveness in leveraging zoom versus traveling all over the globe. So that's a great call-out text at first time. I've gotten that one. So man, I appreciate that feedback.  
Speaker 1    00:07:44    Hey, so let's hop into it. This is the one that like I was telling you, I lead a sales team here in Orlando, Florida. So sales coaching is a big thing, right? So I want to talk through this and we were going to kind of break this down into the top three, top five, somewhere in that neck of the woods, just your best tips techniques that you've seen, that you've leveraged from a sales coaching standpoint, that we can basically arm our audience with Nicholas, um, as they go out and start leading their teams. So give us a little bit of a better understanding. Like when we say sales coaching, do you see that different from sales training or sales coaching sales training, all one in the same, how do you kind of define sales coaching in your world?  
Speaker 2    00:08:24    Yeah, no, I would say, um, sales coaching is more general. It's really the role of, of a head of sales. And I would say it includes training in the process. So training would be a part of the coaching aspect if we can say, and then it's, uh, and for me it always comes down to having a kind of framework, uh, building your framework, how you are going to manage your team. So I think maybe it's, it could be interesting for me to explain how we do it at Newseum at some point very concretely, but yeah, I think the training is part of the coaching. It's a very important part. Sometimes we like dive in to train organized training stuff. So, um, maybe your solution for that. And that's what I do is my team is to present to self improve it's times again. So listening to podcasts, finding resources online, you've got many resources online to train yourself every day and getting the spirit to them that they need to improve. It's part of their job and they need to train a bit and put that in their mind. It's a part of, so every week. Yup.  
Speaker 1    00:09:29    So tell us, you know, I think you brought up a good point for some context, give us a glimpse. Like, what is the framework you follow right now that you mentioned from a no CRM that IO and how you guys are framing it up, kind of give the audience a little bit of a breakdown from that. And then we kind of dig in where it makes some sense. Yup,  
Speaker 2    00:09:44    Sure, sure. Basically. So I'm going to tell you out we organized stuff. So with two objectives, the first one, and that could be a, maybe a, the first tip we could give, or I could give is I did a presentation at the beginning when I joined about what would be my way of coaching. Okay. In the sense explaining what I intend to do. And the first thing I explain to them is I would be coaching, uh, always with positive intent. So meaning that I'm always going to give them feedback and trying to give them in a positive way and they have to take it as a positive thing to be able to improve. Okay. So is that the philosophy around how we are going to work together? Me with my team. Okay. And I think set exists at the beginning is quite important. I would say one would be this setting the context and making sure all the feedbacks, all the coaching you're doing is taken and made with positivity.  
Speaker 1    00:10:42    I actually liked that because what you're doing is you're setting proper expectations. Hey, here's what you can expect. But here's what I'm asking for in return. Like take it the right way so we can all improve. So I think that's what I took from that Nicholas, correct me if I'm wrong.  
Speaker 2    00:10:56    I don't know exactly. That's that's what I mean. That's what I tried to mean. And I said, no, but I was very important for me because sometimes if you're, when you receive feedback and you take it the wrong way, then it's becoming negative. Whereas feedback is always positive. It's always an opportunity to improve. And so I wanted to make that very clear with the team. And so we organized the end value stuff to be able to, first of all, to build up the team spirit, share good practice and efficient coaching. So we are full remote. So we did that. We do that online and I'm going to give you the details on how we organize. Maybe it can be of interest to you. So we basically start the which every Monday with what we call a kind of coffee meeting, it's informal meeting where we all speak together and it takes a weekend and stuff.  
Speaker 1    00:11:45    Is that as a team Nicholas or is that  
Speaker 2    00:11:47    One-on-one now that's a with a team. Okay. It's like a coffee meeting altogether. We explain what we did during the weekends. So for some of us, it's early in the morning for some of us it's late in the afternoon because we are all over the world and it's online, but it's, it's very important to keep these regular meetings to build up the team spirit and make people talk together. And just at the end of this meeting, we set up our weekly goals. So every one of us is standing in the weekly goals has for the week.  
Speaker 1    00:12:18    What does that consist of Nicholas? Just like that weekly goal. Is it all revenue? Is that activity like, what are some of the goals that you guys set up on that meeting on a weekly basis?  
Speaker 2    00:12:28    It could be just a, I want to close five deals this week. Okay. Well, I'm going to crucify this this week or I'm going to help us add, buy with marketing department because we have more companies. So we're doing a lot of things and not only sales, so it could be a mix of a lot of different things. Gotcha. But yeah, the idea is to pick up one of them then as a general framework, when working remotely, what we put in place as a company is we start every day by sharing our three goals a day. Okay. So it's basically, you start your computer in the morning, you take a step back and you think about what three important things you want to accomplish this particular day. And you share that on the internal network with everyone, because that's also a very important part of our process. So every day everyone knows what all the team members are going to be focusing on. And that's also an important path for us as manager to be able to manage everyone, even remotely.  
Speaker 1    00:13:25    So proper expectation setting, you know, at the very top, Hey, here's what I expect of you. Here's what I'm asking of you in return. Number two, Hey, we're at the end of those calls, we're doing the weekly, Hey, what is our goals? Like, what do we want to achieve this week? But then the third is on a daily basis. Hey, here's my top two top three things I want to do today that they share internally to hold be held accountable in some way, shape, form, or fashion and help them get to those end results. Did I get that correct?  
Speaker 2    00:13:53    That's it. Then the, another very important part for me is weekly one-on-one coaching. Okay. So we've got a session every week with all members of my team on one-on-one and that's a session around, uh, getting to know what's the feeling I was feeling and going a bit deeper into the pipeline into there, the deal where they are struggling. So I can add in removes the uptakers, this kind of things. So it's basically, uh, I would say classic 30 minutes says review to get to move things further in the pipeline.  
Speaker 1    00:14:28    Yeah. So then that one-on-one is really intended for that specific individual. Hey, let's get into the weeds on what your pipeline looks like, where can I help? How can I help move the needle for you? And we can work together on Australia. It's more of a strategic conversation with the sales rep on how, on, how you can help or where they're running into some hurdles. Right?  
Speaker 2    00:14:48    Exactly the same to prepare a note before the meeting. So we can, we focus really, uh, so two minutes and if it's propelled a bit in advance, like which needs they want to talk about what is exactly the  is a struggle and it's much more efficient. And also it gives me the opportunity to let them think about their own solution instead of always giving them the solution. You know, it's very important in coaching to do that. You ask them one or two times, you give them the solution and then there was a time then you let them sink by themselves about how they could move this lead for a while that they could reply to this email. So that's also how you make your team improve every week.  
Speaker 1    00:15:29    I love that. And I adopted that sometime ago. The preparation, I think I've always been somewhat prepared, but not to the point where we have agendas. And Hey, you put in your stuff. I put in my stuff a few hours before that way we can chew on it, maybe even the night before, to your point. So we can chew on it and come to that meeting prepared to have actually a good conversation around what you're facing versus what I'm seeing. And let's come to a common ground on how our next steps, like where do we go from here? So I think that's actually a really good call out Nicholas. And I don't talk to everyone in the world from a sales leadership standpoint, but I don't hear that at least mentioned enough, the preparation heading into those one-on-one. So I'm glad you called that out.  
Speaker 2    00:16:13    Yeah, no, it's it's working well and we, I did not set up this, uh, at the beginning and then we, we implemented that because it's time-saving for us release. So it was really important and it's working well.  
Speaker 1    00:16:26    Yep. Hey, so one of the things that I wanted to ask you is because, and you, you mentioned, Hey, you guys are really kind of an up and coming organization doing some fantastic things and kind of disrupting the CRM space, but you guys are growing. And so I'm assuming your sales team is probably managing a number of opportunities at any given time. How do you select, Hey, let's talk about these two, three. I just think to myself, sometimes I have reps at 1520 opportunities. There's not enough time on a one-on-one to talk through all the opportunities. How do you figure out as a sales leader? Hey, let's talk about these three. Let's talk about these three. Let's talk about these two. How do you divvy up what deals make sense to talk about?  
Speaker 2    00:17:09    Yeah, it's a good question. So, uh, depending on the region for us, there's some region where we don't have that much leads, so it's more easy. Okay. But then if we do, it would be basically based on the size of the potential deal. So very simple. So that's one, um, when things that we check and I'm going to check, and so we have just used to use no CRM for managing our lead and in the CRM, you can style, you know, some of the leads. So I asked them to start the ones at all important. And the other thing I asked them to mention me again, in Australia on the leads that they want us to discuss during the one-on-one. So they are picking up the one that they are facing with the kind of struggle or where they, my air and they were picking me in the lead directly. So that's the way we do to set like the one we are going to discuss. Then we discussing also the prospects. So it's split in, in values, you know, topics, but the selection is made before in preparation of the meeting.  
Speaker 1    00:18:06    Yeah, I like that. So you're really putting that back in there, Haley, Hey, what you want to talk about? Where do you need the help? It's not me dictating, Hey, I want to talk about this. I'm sure there are a couple of deals that you may want to talk about that maybe they didn't slack and you want to add that in, but you really let them lead that one-on-one and what they're meeting from you is that fair to say?  
Speaker 2    00:18:26    Yep, exactly. Exactly. And if I, if I want to talk about also leads, I would do that offline or out of this one-on-one session. I can always jump in no CRM who screens their pipeline and you ask question or give them advice directly in the lead offline. I do that a lot also. It's more towards the end of the week to see how they made progress on the lead. And the one-on-one is more at the beginning of the week. And, but yeah, the one-on-one is more getting to know, um, how I can add what general aspects we could improve in the process. It's also a good timing for that. And the, yeah, let them basically, um, lead the bit, the discussion in terms of what they want to tackle in terms of problems. Yeah.  
Speaker 1    00:19:09    Yep. Hey, so that's helpful. So, I mean, there's a few things that we've discussed from a framework standpoint, right? You said, Hey, listen, obviously we want to set proper expectations. So everyone understands where they're coming from two weekly goals, three daily goals. And then obviously the one-on-one being kind of the fourth linchpin to that. So help me understand this necklace, cause this is a challenging piece of it on those daily goals, those weekly goals. Talk a little bit about accountability. Like how do you, where does accountability? I know it's in the constructive feedback, but talk a little bit about how you manage accountability to those end goals, if you will.  
Speaker 2    00:19:47    Hm. We don't really manage it. Okay. Yeah, no really, because it's, it's more, um, we try to build up the culture of the company as to people as to be very autonomous and very self responsible for their activities and goals. So of course, I'm here to coach, I'm here to manage. If I see that, uh, like three times, three days in a row as this person is not completing his goals and it's going to be a discussion and stuff like that, but there's no real accountability in terms of, I want provide the Z's numbers. It would be more okay. If, for example, if the company needed a translation, if I, I have a team member that needs to sit in, in the support because there's someone missing, blah, blah, blah. Uh, then we, we want them to do this autonomously and really be self motivated just because it's part of the culture of the company.  
Speaker 1    00:20:40    Right. That makes  
Speaker 2    00:20:41    Sense. Yeah. So it's not real coaching and taking KPIs every day. It's not the way we do this. So talk  
Speaker 1    00:20:48    To me a little bit about Nicholas. So I mean, obviously you're leading a number of individuals across the globe. Time is, you know, everybody has 24 hours in the day, but sometimes that doesn't seem like enough. How do you manage it? Because I know that one thing I hear from sales leaders is the reason I can't number one reason. I can't do more coaching. I don't have enough time in the day. I'm managing this, managing that. How do you cause that we've we set up, Hey, what the expectations are for the team? How do you work your schedule to really block out? Like how do you manage that to be present from a sales coaching standpoint?  
Speaker 2    00:21:24    I think I put this framework and organization for one. So it's blocked in my schedule anyway. And that's the top priority for me so that the priorities would be the team meeting the one-on-one sessions. Okay. Then we've got another session that I didn't mention yet, but which I think is very important is what we call a sharing session. And we put the team all together during one hour and we've got a presentation. So it's split in three parts. I'm giving them some small tips from the week. Okay. Then I've got someone from the team presenting, something about saves in general. So it's topics that I've chosen. Like for example, last week it was about copywriting and it's a team member. That's preparing that for 15, 20 minutes. And then we've got another team member during the last 20 minutes that is sharing success with the lead or the bad leads that that's closed any basically story about the lead that they want to share with the team. So it's again, and those are sessions that we have altogether about sharing good practices and sharing knowledge about safety in general. That's also blocked in my agenda and then I've got some sessions blocked also in my calendar to basically review the pipe. And every month also I'm doing some kind of more in-depth review of what has happened, why we losing these kind of things. It's more saves than that, the time. So everything is blocked in my schedule in advance. And that's my top priority.  
Speaker 0    00:22:50    You're listening to the sales samurai podcast. We'll be right back after this break  
Speaker 3    00:22:59    Sales samurai is excited to announce the launch of the largest database of B2B sales resources on the planet, 600 plus resources with more added every single day, searching sort and filter and leading software providers, podcasts, books, blogs, and so much more, the best part. It's absolutely free to search, go to sales, samurai.io to start your search.  
Speaker 1    00:23:28    That's fantastic. You know, the reason I asked that question is because I find that that's the biggest challenge is for me included, this is not throwing. This is not saying everyone else, but me is that blocking out the time and being diligent that time where no one blocks I even put in my calendar do not book over this. This is required like that, blah, like, cause people will still book over it. So I, I make it really known. I love the fact that you do a couple of things or you have your team meeting for the goals for the week. You have your one-on-ones, but then you actually do a team sharing session too, to share what are they running up against, whatever the topic might be. So I liked it. And all of that is net it out on your calendar. So it's dedicated time that you've made room for if you will. And that's a mission critical.  
Speaker 2    00:24:19    Exactly. No, that's the most important thing, at least for me. And then also over time, over this past two years, I've moved away a bit from, uh, the business. They run about the same spot as well. I'm still doing some sales, but I would say less and less. So I've got more and more time to organize ever seen in terms of coaching and team management.  
Speaker 1    00:24:40    That might have a question for you that I want to really get your thoughts on more nearly, I don't really have an answer to it, but you brought it up earlier in the conversation. You know, I remember back in my days, I'm going to go with the old man thing. I've been doing this and I walked 10 miles in the snow. But I remember when I was starting in order to get your own self development, you had to put in, you had to go to the library, you had to go buy books off the shelf like today. Self-development I don't want to say it's easier, but it's a lot more accessible. You can go YouTube videos. There's so many training courses. Like where does personal development fall into your strategy? Like how big is that to you and how you reinforce that with your team?  
Speaker 2    00:25:24    Oh, it's, it's not big enough, but yeah, no, I, I do tend to, I'm also, I've got a big background in sports. Okay. Uh, I've been, uh, playing volleyball and beach volleyball. I live in France. That keeps me thinking that training is very important. At least self-training constant training and we should apply this more to saves or any skews in the companies because it's not because you want a deal or you want a game in the sport that you're not going to train anymore and come to the next game and prepare, okay, that's not happening in sport. And that should not happen as well in Sage or any skills that you have in common. So that's why we put all the sessions across the week to discuss together. And then self-training training. We tend to push that more and more. So we push articles, we push resources that we found who I invite the team members to always look out a bit. So they do it their own way. And then when they find an interesting resources and we've got a, we using notion, I don't know if you know the tool notion  
Speaker 1    00:26:26    I'm familiar. I haven't used it, but I'm familiar with them.  
Speaker 2    00:26:29    Okay. So we keep everything basically in there, we've got a sales directory with all our training station, all the library, I would say of resources and anyone has access to it and can basically put their yeah. Their, every blog, every articles, YouTube videos, or sometimes just randomly scrolling through LinkedIn and you find valuable resources. You know how it is now.  
Speaker 1    00:26:53    Yeah. I'm almost in the same bucket with you. When I say, I think it's so important, but yet I don't think we do enough, but I don't also don't know how much we should do. It's personal development. So I mean, I kind of walked that line that I do share, Hey, here's a good course. Hey, here's a blog. I read, we put it in our slack channel and it's a specific channel for those types of things. But we've recently adopted a budget. You have, I'm just picking a number. You have $500 a year. You could pick it on any self-development training that you want, go out and get it, but you have to use it. Right. We don't care where you use it, but go get it. Okay. What's your thoughts? Like I'm torn either which way, because I think that's valuable, but I also don't think that I don't know if it's valuable. It's our first year doing that. Have you seen that? Do you guys do anything similar to that? What's your thoughts around that? Hey, we're even going to fund it for you. You just go figure out where you want to spend it.  
Speaker 2    00:27:47    Yeah, no, we, we basically recently discussed that with the team. It was more like, okay, well now we've got a budget, propose something, you know, if you want to get trained on the specific therapy, because then we're going to pay for that. And actually nobody reacted to that either because they don't have time or they don't find the motivation. I don't know. Or maybe also, because now you can, uh, you know, every week you've got a bunch of webinars that you can assist for free. So if you want to dig into a specific topic, now, you, you basically can find some interesting stuff on your own and don't spend sometimes if you spend $500, you've got a three days training. Maybe alphabet is bullshit, sorry for the world. But, uh, yeah. And, and you better set up your own training session or your own courses on content and do it yourself  
Speaker 1    00:28:39    On that note. I think you're right, right. There's just so much, there's so much out there. There's so much free stuff that you probably don't need a budget, but it might be nice to have it there. If there's something more in depth you want to take, I even think, heck use the 500 to go buy three or four books. That'll keep you, you read those for the next quarter, quarter and a half. I don't know. But I will say this Nicholas I've had people tell me different thoughts. Me coming up eight to five is selling that's the golden hour, if you will in sales. Right. But I've kind of backed down from that in my own experience where I think a lot of the expectation used to be, you need to do that on your own time, do all that stuff on your own time, outside of those hours because you need to be selling. And I actually think that you should allow the sales rep to take an hour during the day an hour during the week, whatever for that specifically, because I think that's the right thing to do. Where do you fall on that? I mean, I've heard both sides of that coin. I think there's a pros and cons, but I'm just curious your thought on it.  
Speaker 2    00:29:42    I don't know. My thought is clearly it's part of the job, so you can do it during your baby. They work time and I invite them to do it. So I even put some times myself. I mean, sometimes one of my goal of the day is to listen to an interesting podcast. I put that. And so it's also invite them to do the same and take 30 minutes to listen to podcasts. It's not going to kill your day. It's going to be very efficient. And also the other thing I invite them to do is to, for each of them, because they are working on different markets is to reach out on LinkedIn, to counterpart or payers like country manager for another SAS software in the same country. Instead of meeting with them, just to discuss, you know, with no goal of setting up, uh, any partnership is just to get feedback, get to know each other, get to know I was at work on the market and learn from them because it's also a very, very, um, efficient way to learn. Just discuss with other people, doing the same thing in the same market is very vulnerable. And so I tend to push them to do that a bit, even a bit more than a listening or looking out for resources. Yeah,  
Speaker 1    00:30:48    That makes sense. And I like the fact that you actually encourage it in, Hey, take the time. Maybe even block off an hour a week, somewhere on your week and you can move it around, you know, if a webinar isn't at that exact time, move it around, but have an hour dedicated to that. Cause it is, I fall in the same boat. Sales is like an hour. I mean, some people will disagree with me, but it is very similar, right? You should always be perfecting your craft and things change so fast in sales. If you're not listening, I'll be the very first one to say. I was never a podcast listener before taking this on, but just in having these kinds of conversations, you can't imagine how much stuff I write down from having these conversations, because it's just such great feedback. And Hey, let, let me try that. That's a good idea. I've never thought about that. And those, I think the biggest issue I, I always ran into is people think that they should just walk away with 87 different things from that and it overwhelms them and I don't have that expectations. I'm like, Hey, can I get one thing from this one, two things that I can try? Exactly. I think that's the most valuable. No,  
Speaker 2    00:31:54    I agree. I agree without a doubt.  
Speaker 1    00:31:56    So I'm going to kind of boil this down for you, but help me understand, like all of the stuff that you've, we've walked through, like we've said, Hey, the weekly, what's the goals for the week, the daily, the expectation the one-on-ones getting strategic on those blocking out time, specifically for self-development and for you to do some training. And then that team sharing event that you do on a weekly basis, like what is the biggest obstacle that you face in your day to day and making all that happen? Just from a time standpoint, resource standpoint, is there any kind of big hurdle that you've seen, Hey, this is what I keep an eye out for.  
Speaker 2    00:32:35    Yeah. It's the first one would be obviously the, the time, because depending on the number of fleets that you have to manage and it's because it's blocking a, quite an important amount of time every week, but I've seen the team very engaged in all those meetings. So it's, it's giving me confidence that it's the right thing to do. So there's no big uptakers about the fact that we are all remote and building the confidence and the real team spirit without seeing each other at all. I mean, most of them, I didn't meet them in person at all. I mean, it's a challenge. It's not the same. Even if you, if we take like, uh, kind of work time, uh, on zoom to discuss, it's not the same as going out for coffee or for a beer with the team and get to know them really personally. And so that's the challenge that we are is we always have this small barrier because we are remote and we can do nothing about it because of COVID-19 that's it?  
Speaker 1    00:33:36    Yeah. I know. I think those are our fair assessments, right? I mean, I, in this new remote world, there's a water cooler talk anymore. There's no talking at the, you know, in the office about, you know, getting to know someone on a, on a real personal level. So I think that's a good call out. Hey, so what's your thoughts on this? Because this is something I've kind of bounced of other sales leaders. Like what portion of your time should be spent coaching? Like when you look at your calendar, like you guys, you're probably doing meetings with the rep with clients, so that that's a portion of your time. You probably have internal meetings that you just have to do with leadership. Like, but when you look at your calendar, is there kind of a, a benchmark that you use from a leadership standpoint to say, Hey, I'm doing the right winning or I need to be doing more.  
Speaker 2    00:34:21    Um, yeah, it's a good question. I have no idea I'm doing what I feel is right, but I don't have much. I mean, I've, I've not received any training about coaching and, and stuff like that. I'm just doing what I think is right. I'm always discussing stuff with the team. So getting a lot of feedback from them on how we could improve, what would be the right things to do. I think it's more team thing that we know we all build up this framework together. Uh, I'm responsible for it, but I've built that with them. And so that's why I think it's the right framework for us. Then in terms of timing, I don't know. I would say maybe a 30 to 40% of my time is doing that. Making sure everything is, uh, is happening in terms of coaching and training and coaching Zima every week on the CRM as well. So we get to make sure the leads are progressing,  
Speaker 1    00:35:12    Right? That's a good call up because I find that, but 40% is where I, I would love to. And I gotta be better about it that should be spent there because that at least gives me Nicholas when I'm not, when I get pulled into other things that I can do an evaluation of my prior week and say, Hey, that went off the rails. I got to get back to X, Y, and Z. So it just helps me kind of keep track of it. Just curious what your thoughts were on it. Mine's not data backed in any way, shape, form, or fashion. I don't have a, the analysis tool to figure that out, but I go by the feel on it that about 40% is probably a good amount of time. I should be spending coaching, training, whatever the case might be.  
Speaker 2    00:35:53    Yeah. So it's, it's funny. We aim the same kind of number in terms of the time we spend. I just have a feeling that it's right. But I dunno, I didn't do any benchmark about it and maybe I should speak a bit more with all the other states, but it's very company specific I think here.  
Speaker 1    00:36:12    Yeah. I think it is as well. Like to your point. I mean, it depends on are those teams local or are they international time differences? I never realized how much that plays a role in it, because if someone's five hours behind you that there's another layer of complexities, right? I mean, that's a whole different beast that you're talking about when it comes to coaching.  
Speaker 2    00:36:32    It's part of the things that unique to take into account.  
Speaker 1    00:36:35    So, Hey, I know we're bumping up against it, but any final thoughts that you have for the audience tips, final thoughts, maybe, Hey, stay away from this. I tried this, it didn't work. Any tips that you want to share with the audience that we didn't discuss.  
Speaker 2    00:36:48    One of the tips I'm giving a loss right now to the team is to always, um, sync positive and take your sales as a game. I advise them to step back a bit before it score up before its meeting. And I find out that it's building a bit, the confidence for them, you know, basically saying, or thinking in your mind in any way what's going to happen. If it's go wrong. I mean, it's, it's nothing we're just talking about business boat says, no, it's not going to impact my life. And so you step back and I find out that it's getting you, you better because you, you feel more confident and the customer prospect, they can also perceive that. So it's, it's working well.  
Speaker 1    00:37:27    That's great, man. That's fantastic. So how do people connect with you learn more about, you know, CRM IO. Tell us a little bit about that.  
Speaker 2    00:37:36    Yeah. For reaching out to me, you can find me on LinkedIn, I'd be happy to connect and discuss and then about  or you don't need a cnn.com. So that's a lead management solution it's made for sales people. So I'm sure a lot of sales people listening to it and you'll find quick videos and lots of resources. So you're able to start your accounts, a free account, and you you'd be also discussing with amazing team anywhere in the world. So, uh, let's go have a look.  
Speaker 1    00:38:09    Fantastic. We're going to put all that in the show notes. We're going to put links to know crm.io and know links to your LinkedIn profile. Nicholas really enjoyed having the conversation today. Thanks for coming on.  
Speaker 2    00:38:20    Yeah, my pleasure. I was very, very nice. I have a good day now. I know it's early for you,  
Speaker 1    00:38:26    But thank you.  
Speaker 0    00:38:29    Thank you for listening to the sales samurai podcast with your host, Sam Capra. Be sure you subscribe to our podcast and visit sales samurai.io and join the conversation, access shownotes and discover bonus content. 

Nicolas De Swetschin Profile Photo

Nicolas De Swetschin

Head of Sales

Head of sales at noCRM.io a lead management solution designed to help sales people close more deals.

Nicolas has 15 years’ experience in sales and international business development within software and value-added services companies and is a beach-volley athletes and coach